هل العدد يقول من ليس علينا فهو معنا ام من ليس عليكم فهو معكم 05 لوقا 9: Holy_bible_1 الشبهة يوجد اختالف في بعض النسخ في ترجمة لوقا 05 9: فبعضها يقول من ليس علينا فهو معنا وبعضها يقول من ليس عليكم فهو معكم فايهما الصحيح الرد ندرس العدد معا بادلة خارجية وداخلية لنعرف اي قراءه هي الصحيحة االدلة الخارجية انجيل لوقا 05 9: 05 9: فقال له يسوع ال تمنعوه الن من ليس علينا فهو معنا
التراجم المختلفة اوال التي كتبت معنا Luk 9:50 (ALT) And Jesus said to him, "Stop preventing [or, forbidding] [him], for who[ever] is not against us is for us." (ACV) But Jesus said to him, Do not forbid, for he who is not against us is for us. (AKJ) And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (ALTNT) And Jesus said to him, "Stop preventing [or, forbidding] [him], for who[ever] is not against us is for us." (VW) But Jesus said to him, Do not forbid him, for whoever is not against us is for us. (Bishops) And Iesus sayde vnto hym, Forbyd ye [hym] not: For he that is not against vs, is with vs.
(Mace) but Jesus said to him, don't oppose it: for he that is not against us, is for us. (EMTV) But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is for us." (Etheridge) Jeshu saith to them, Forbid him not; for he who is not against us, he is for us. (EVID) And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Geneva) Then Iesus saide vnto him, Forbid ye him not: for he that is not against vs, is with vs. (GLB) Und Jesus sprach zu ihm: Wehret ihm nicht; denn wer nicht wider uns ist, der ist für uns. (GDBY_NT) And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not; for whosoever is not against us is on our side. (HNV) Yeshua said to him, "Don't forbid him, for he who is not against us is for us." (IAV NC) And Yehowshua said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(IAV) And Yehowshua said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (ISRAV) And Yehowshua said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (JST) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid not any; for he who is not against us is for us. (JOSMTH) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid not any; for he who is not against us is for us. (KJ2000) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (KJVCNT) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (KJCNT) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(KJV-Clar) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (KJV-1611) And Iesus said vnto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against vs, is for vs. (KJV21) And Jesus said unto him, "Forbid him not; for he that is not against us, is for us." (KJVA) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (LitNT) AND SAID TO HIM JESUS, FORBID NOT; FOR WHOSOEVER NOT IS AGAINST US, FOR US IS. (LITV) And Jesus said to them, Do not forbid, for whoever is not against us is for us. (LONT) Jesus answered, Forbid not such; for whosoever is not against us, is for us. (MKJV) And Jesus said to him, Do not prevent him, for he who is not against us is for us. (NKJV) But Jesus said to him, Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us [c] is on our [d] side.
(NLV) Jesus said to him, 'Do not stop him. He who is not against us is for us.' (NRSV) But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him; for whoever is not against you is for you." (RNKJV) And Yeshua said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (RSVA) But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him; for he that is not against you is for you." (RYLT-NT) and Jesus said unto him, 'Forbid not, for he who is not against us, is for us.' (TMB) And Jesus said unto him, "Forbid him not; for he that is not against us, is for us." (Tyndale) And Iesus sayde vnto him: forbyd ye him not. For he that is not agaynst vs is wt vs.
(Webster) And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us, is for us. (WORNT) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he, that is not against us, is for us. (Wycliffe) And Jhesus seide to hym, Nyle ye forbede, for he that is not ayens vs, is for vs. (WycliffeNT) And Jhesus seide to hym, Nyle ye forbede, for he that is not ayens vs, is for vs. (YLT) and Jesus said unto him, `Forbid not, for he who is not against us, is for us.' ) 44 ( التراجم التي كتبت معكم (ASV) But Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you.
(BBE) But Jesus said to him, Let him do it, for he who is not against you is for you. (CEV) "Don't stop him!" Jesus said. "Anyone who isn't against you is for you." (Darby) And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not, for he that is not against you is for you. (DRB) And Jesus said to him: Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you. (ESV) But Jesus said to him, "Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you." (ERV) Jesus said to him, "Don't stop him. Whoever is not against you is for you." (GNB) "Do not try to stop him," Jesus said to him and to the other disciples, "because whoever is not against you is for you." (GW) Jesus said to him, "Don't stop him! Whoever isn't against you is for you." (ISV) Jesus said to him, "Don't stop him! For whoever is not against you is for you."
(NIRV) "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "Anyone who is not against you is for you." (NIV) Do not stop him, Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you." (RV) But Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you. (WNT) "Do not forbid him," said Jesus, "for he who is not against you is on your side." ونري ان اغلبية التراجم االنجليزية قديمة وجديده تقليدية واغلبية وبعض النقدية قدمت كلمة علينا ) 31 ( ومعنا النسخ اليوناني και ειπεν προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ ημων υπερ ημων εστιν kai eipen pros auton o iēsous mē kōluete os gar ouk estin kath ēmōn uper ēmōn estin
(ABP-G+) και G2532 ειπε G2036 προς G4314 αυτον G1473 ο G3588 Ιησους G* μη κωλυετ ε G3361 G2967 ος γαρ G3739 G1063 ουκ εστι G3756 G1510.2.3 καθ G2596 ημων G1473 υπερ G5228 ημων G1473 εστιν G1510.2.3 ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)... καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ Ἰησοῦς Μὴ κωλύετε ὃς γὰρ οὐκ ἔστιν καθ' ἡμῶν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐστιν ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)... και ειπεν προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ ημων υπερ ημων εστιν ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550)... και ειπεν προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ ημων υπερ ημων εστιν... ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1894)...
και ειπεν προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ ημων υπερ ημων εστιν (GNT-V) TSB και ειπεν A δε προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστι ν καθ A υμων TSB ημων υπερ A υμων TSB ημων εστιν (IGNT+) και G2532 AND ειπεν G2036 [G5627] SAID προς G4314 TO αυτον G846 G3588 HIM ο ιησους G2424 μη G3361 JESUS, κωλυετε G2967 [G5720] FORBID NOT; ος G3739 G1063 FOR γαρ WHOSOEVER ουκ G3756 NOT εστιν G2076 [G5748] IS καθ G2596 AGAINST ημων G2257 US, υπ ερ G5228 FOR ημων G2257 US G2076 [G5748] IS. εστιν (G-NT-TR (Steph)+) και And 2532 CONJ ειπεν said 2036 V-2AAI-3S προς unto 4314 PREP αυτον him 846 P-ASM ο 3588 T-NSM ιησους Jesus 2424 N-NSM μη not 3361 PRT-N κωλυετε Forbid, 2967 V-PAM-2P ος he 3739 R-NSM γαρ for 1063 CONJ ουκ not 3756 PRT- N εστιν that is 2076 V-PXI-3S καθ against 2596 PREP ημων us 2257 P-1GP υπερ for 5228 PREP ημων us 2257 P-1GP εστιν is. 2076 V-PXI-3S (SNT) και ειπεν προς αυτον ο ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ ημ ων υπερ ημων εστιν
التي كتبت انتم يومون ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort... ειπεν δε προς αυτον ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ υμων υπερ υμων εστιν ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed.... ειπεν δε προς αυτον ιησους μη κωλυετε ος γαρ ουκ εστιν καθ υμων υπερ υμων εστιν ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 9:50 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church... καὶ εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ Ἰησοῦς Μὴ κωλύετε οὐ γάρ ἔστι καθ ὑμῶν ὃς γὰρ οὐκ ἔστι καθ ὑμῶν, ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐστιν. ونري ان التقليديه واالغلبيه كتبت معنا المخطوطات عدة مخطوطات يونانية كتبت معكم منها الفاتيكانية واالفرايمية وبيزا وبعض مخطوطات الخط الصغير مع الفلجاتا والسريانية ولكن مخطوطه مهمة في هذا العد يجب ان ندرسها وهي السينائية وصورتها
وصورة العدد ونري ان الكلمه الثانية تغيرت من ايمون اي نحن الي يومون اي انتم فحرف االيتا القديم الباهت ( يشبه حرف االتش كابيتال ) كتب فوقه حرف يوبسلون ( يشبه حرف الواي كابيتال ) والكلمه االولي
ونري ان حرف االيتا كتب فوق ويوجد في خلفية حرف يوبسلون حرف غير ظاهر شبه محي تماما فهي قد يكون الناسخ كتي االيتا ومحاها وكتب يبوسلون ثم وضع االيتا فوقها فالناسخ هنا كتب العدد كما نعرفه التقليدي ولكن غالبا محي الحرف بعدها وكتب انتم بدل نحن اما الفاتيكانية صورتها
والعدد
ووضعت عالمه نقديه وهي النقتطين وصورة المخطوطه المنقوله منها فهي كتبت فعال انتم ولكن وضعت عالمه نقدية المخطوطات التي تشهد للنص التقليدي ابدا بمخطوطة جائت شهادتها في المنتصف ( من ليس عليكم فهو معنا ) االسكندرية من القرن الخامس وصورتها
وصورة العدد ومخطوطه دلتا فعلت نفس االمر واكسي مخطوطه ثيتا قلبت الكلمتين ( من ليس علينا فهو معكم ) والتي تشهد للقراءه التقليديه مجموعة مخطوطات f1 f13 مجموعة المخطوطات البيزنطيه وهي لهذا العدد يقرب من االلف مخطوطة Byz وايضا 157 579 الترجمات الترجمه االشورية وتعود الي سنة 360 م تقريبا
والعدد وترجمته لجون ويزلي 9:50 Jeshu saith to them, Forbid him not; for he who is not against us, he is for us. وهي شهاده قديمه جدا للقراءه التقليدية يوجد مخطوطه كتبت شيئ مختلف وهي البرديه ( 40 فهو ليس ضدكم وال معكم ) فاالدله الخارجيه تنوعت بين مؤيد ومعارض وبين من قدم قراءه وسط بين االثنين ولكن عندنا ادله قديمه علي وجود قراءت من ليس علينا فهو معنا من القرن الثاني الميالدي اقوال االباء اليوجد اقتباسات كثيره من هذا العدد ولكن عندنا بعض الشهادات مثل القديس اغسطينوس Lord does say, "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." 21902190 Luke ix. 49, 50. ويكررها مره اخري "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
االدله الداخليه الحقيقه كالم الرب يسوع المسيح كرر مرقس الرسول في انجيل مرقس 9 45 9: الن من ليس علينا فهو معنا اذا هذا هو نص كالم الرب الذي نقله لنا مرقس البشير ولوقا البشير وايضا الرب يسوع كرر كالمه مره اخري في انجيل لوقا 33 31 33: من ليس معي فهو علي و من ال يجمع معي فهو يفرق الن الخدمه هي خدمة المسيح ونحن اعضاء جسده الذي هو الراس فيتكلم بالمفرد او بالجمع ولكن ال يفصلنا عنه بقوله معكم وعليكم مع مالحظة ان الرب يتكلم انجيل لوقا 9 49 9: فاجاب يوحنا و قال يا معلم راينا واحدا يخرج الشياطين باسمك فمنعناه النه ليس يتبع معنا 05 9: فقال له يسوع ال تمنعوه الن من ليس علينا فهو معنا سياق الكالم يقدم ضمير نحن فاجابة المسيح بنفس الضمير هي اقرب الي الصحه مع مالحظة ان الخلط بين الكلمتين اليونانيتين نحن
ημων انتم υμων هو معتاد ولهذا نجد االختالف في عدة قراءات وليس قراءتين فقط ولوقا البشير يكلم اليونان عن المسيح الذبيح فادي البشريه والمسيح هو يمثل البشريه ومعهم ولهذا هو دائما يتكلم بصيغة ان المسيح مع التالميذ مجموعة واحده وال يفرق بينهم النه هو راس الكنيسه وبقية المؤمنين جسده ولهذا فتعبير معنا مناسب اكثر للفكر الالهوتي للوقا الحبيب وبناء علي قاعدة The reading which best fits the context or the author's theology( and القراءه التي تناسب الفكر الالهوتي للكاتب هي االفضل فهذا يؤكد اكثر ان القراءه التقليديه هي االصح واكتفي بهذا القدر ideology ) is best. والمجد هلل دائما